The driving debate continues. Not too many Americans have had a chance to play this high end Japanese equip, but I'm sure that many of the posters here have tried the FT-3, 5, Sumo, SQ, SuperQuad, etc. Is this absolutely beautiful EPON driver or Tour Stage better than those in regards to distance or feel? I wanted to put a RODDIO in my Nike SQ Tour, but the gentleman said no, I'm still not sure why. So I guess to take advantage of this great shaft I have to play a Japanese head. Are these heads better than their American counterparts? I'm hitting the ball nasty right now, and want to get as much distance as I can, I max out at about 290 after a nice roll etc with a Callaway X460 9 degree with a 63 Diamana. It produces too much spin though, I can tell the flight can be better, higher launch with less spin (hence my wanting to switch to a Roddio) any help?

In short, Yes. In addition J-Clubs finishing and design are very fine, that please your heart.

I sold all my u.s. clubs, except putters. I think it's about time for me to replace the putters.

PS: I don't say u.s. clubs are bad, they just made for common people. Once you are becoming more demanding, then you have to look to next stage to nirvana.

(IMG:http://www.tourspecgolf.com/forum/style_emoticons/TSG_Smileys/atsg_smilie_roll.gif)

I don't think you'll find that much of a difference between the HIGH TECH tour gear drivers from the US and tour gear from Japan when it comes to performance. If so, the few asian pros who now and then joins the PGA tour and major championships would all hit ít longer, better and straighter than the US and Euro guys - but they don't. In fact they hit it shorter and by a big margin. I saw two Japanese guys at the masters last week woth Tourstage gear in the bag. I really like Tourstage gear, but they don't hit it any longer or better with Tourstage drivers than with the other top brand driver from the US.

If Japanese drivers would give the tour pro's an extra 10 yard, you can bet they would use them in tournaments or the US gear guys would copy the technology in a heart beat.

What I believe makes japanese gear so special is the innovation and new technology they put into their drivers - and this is mostly helping the mid to high handicappers.
But the new drivers from Callaway and TaylorMade are in my view up there with the best JDM drivers when it comes to performance with regards to shaping the ball, hitting it longer - but where I see a difference is in the low end driver market, where JDM gear offers much more technology, but also for an extra price, that the JDM market are willing to pay.

You see a lot more innovation in the JDM drivers, and this technology will slowly but steadily float to the US market, when new driver technology has been evolved in the JDM market. The older technlogy will then be considered new in the US, but can be sold at a cheaper price - a price the US guys are willing to pay.

When I buy a TM SuperQuad TP driver, and pays $699, this is considered expensive in the US and Europe, but in Japan, this is an average price for a driver - go figure that out.
Guys in Asia are simply willing to pay more for the extra high tech stuff that you get in a Japanese driver. As I say, I don't think this will help the low capper so much as it will help the high capper, who struggles off the tee. I've changed my driver every year for the last 3 years, and I don't think I've added more than 10 yards to my driver length in this span and this mostly is because of the evolution in ball technology. Where I've seen an improvement is in forgiveness - and I think it's here that you really gain by playing expensive high tech JDM drivers....forgiveness off the tee, and on top of that you get to play with a driver that only a very few select people will know what is. The average Joe will think you got your $800 Tourstage driver in the nearest WallMart - but deep inside you know you play with something special and unique (IMG:http://www.tourspecgolf.com/forum/style_emoticons/TSG_Smileys/tsg_smilie_love.gif)

The same goes for forged irons - I play with Ping S 58 and frankly I love them. Are they as soft as my Miura and Mizuno irons, NO - but they still feel great and have other stuff built in the head that makes them play great. Will I ever consider NOT playing with forged irons now and then, to enjoy the feel of a well struck forged shot, NO, but a cast Ping still feels awesome - it's all a matter of taste and what you deep inside believe is the best for YOU !

Just to chime in, I have a PRGR T3 Black that has the sweetest sound when struck pure...one of the more workable drivers I've hit. I just need to upgrade the stock shaft for a RODDIO or OZIK....and possibly get a 9* head. But I digress....I like the FT-5 and Superquad...it's just like Claus said a matter of taste and I like the sound and results from my T3 Black better.

At the end of the day you want a shaft and head combo that suits your swing. The shaft weight, bend profile, feel, and flex need to be matched up with a head that has the right weighting, loft, and spin characteristics.

Can you do this and find a good fit with a US or Japanese head and shaft? Yes. Will they feel the same and allow the same degree of optimization? In my experience, no.

Edit for brevity: I'll leave the rest to Chris.

This post has been edited by K2_2: Apr 11 2007, 10:59 AM

I would definitely say the answer to that question is yes. I just put my new Epon 460 9.5* Axiv 6060M in play a couple about a month ago and its the best feeling driver i've had since the days of persimmon. The two things that sold me most on this driver were the nice clean look on top and bottom, and the ability to order it just like I wanted. I don't know of any U.S. product that can be ordered with your choice of face angle.

Most reviews I've read say the Epon 460 is basically a straight hitting club,which it is very forgiving and easy to hit straight , but I've found that I can work the ball left or right quite easily, I know having the correct shaft has a lot to do with being able to work the ball. I can't speak for the Tour Stage yet but I will say you can't go wrong with anything with Epon on it.

You've all touched on some really good points. I am a big JDM fan, you all know that. But whether JDM is better than American or vice versa, it is of course all subjective and personal. Even though my wife was born and raised in Japan and it's like my second home, I began playing golf using TM, Nike and Ping clubs. I then discovered JDM clubs and have not looked back. For me it was a totally different feel and as Barry above said, unlimited options. The workmanship, materials used and designs for me were out of this world. This is not to say that American companies don't make good products. When we are talking retail here, America and Japan make products for different price ranges really. Retail clubs in the Japanese market just plain cost more in general, and it shows in the workmanship, materials and options available.

On the shafts side, it's amazing that even Japanese OEM's will sell clubs from factory with ALL the TOP of the line shafts as options, as well as loft, lie, face angle etc. Though I believe American OEM's are heading in that direction too since it's all about being fit for ones game, right now you can buy a Mizuno driver with every single high end shaft as an option from Mizuno, they will even adjust the LIE on your DRIVER. I don't think you can get that done in the USA.

But maybe not everyone needs this kind of customization or all titanium drivers... or not everyone wants to pay for it. But yes there are many of us who are willing to pay for it and appreciate it. It's all about finding what's best for ourselves, and what we are willing to pay for.

American as in?

As far as I know its all made in China.

The good Japanese drivers usually have a slightly higher ball speed, depending on design and material the feel is enhanced too. That said it doesn't take a JDM driver to shoot low scores, still gotta have the swing.

The USGA has everything max'd out so dont expect major distance gains from anything on any side of the pond.

You know what I mean, Chris. Besides that, some Nike and Callaway drivers are made in Thailand by Endo (you said so yourself - so not everything is from China and as you also have mentioned, not everything from China is made with poor quality control)

You can have US brand tour drivers for the price of JDM drivers and the US tour drivers can be fitted to your exact likings - loft, lie, internal weighting etc.
The tour drivers are not on the shelfs, like the JDM drivers are in Japan and I do agree that JDM drivers have advanced shaft options - BUT the trend in the US market is going in the same direction now. Again one can argue, that the JDM market started the trend with exotic shaft options and now 2-3 years later, we see the same trend in the US market.

I agree that the JDM drivers are more innovative with regards to both design and use of high tech materials - but not something that a US tour driver, made in China, can't accommodate regarding the ball speed and smashfactor.

As I said the forgiveness factor is one area where the JDM drivers prevails.
Forgiveness is a must for everybody, but especially for the mid to high cappers - and this is the group of people that will benefit most from the advanced forgiving hot JDM drivers.

In my (limited) experience the sheer quality of materials, craftmanship and attention to detail finishing, place the JDM equipment in a totally different category to the US/China OEM's, the price we pay for our HO'ing of JDM gear reflects this! The domestic markets in the US and Europe would not stand the price point that JDM equipment is marketed at. My PRGR T3 with Axiv V has a retail tag of nearly $1000 USD, compare that to the average OEM driver at $300, is my PRGR worth 3 times a Callaway X460 or a Cobra M Speed, possibly not, would the average US or European golfer pay that amount of money, certainly not!
I can honestly say that in over 30 years of playing this game I have never owned anything that came close to my newly acquired Japanese clubs in terms of quality, feel and playability.
But the real reason that we TSG members are so devoted to our JDM clubs - the kudos of owning something so special, the pride of ownership and the exclusivity are the reasons that many of us spend so much on our beloved clubs - Long may it continue!